Spending £16bn+ / year
3% of Population
only 5% of journeys
- only10,000 miles of track
Spending £10bn / year
- 90% of all journeys
- 245,000 miles of road
spending is 1.5 x road spending
at £14.8bn, rail only serves 3%
of population, whilst road serves 100%.
Rail spend is now a whopping 36p
/ mile against roads 3p / mile.
passengers are subsidised £4bn
/ year and road taxes bring in £50bn
- Road users & tax payers are being taken for an
must be ****ing joking - that can't be right - What can I do
here for fair spending on roads - done - Thanks
Fat : The Facts
Rail spending now exceeds road spending by
over 150%. Rail spending is now well
past 'Are you sure?', right through 'That can't be right?' and is now
deep into 'Holy crap!' Every tax payer is now subsiding the just 3%
of the population that are rail users by 36p
a mile (and that is before HS2 / HS3 / Crossrail 2), whereas every mile
the rest of us drive on the road is costing us 13p. So who is getting a
really bum deal here?
At this point every tax payer should be thinking, their is definitely something
wrong here and then be saying 'I'm not having that - that is well unfair
/ undemocratic / really taking the p*ss - what are we going to
do about it'.
Good, now do something - vote at
change.org asking at the very least for usage proportional spending on rail & road.
At 100,000 votes they will debate it and we will have the answers
Then just to wake him / her / it up a bit, write to your MP
and say what the f*** do you think you are doing? Do not let those self
satisfied job's worth's carry on taking us for mugs.
The government will no doubt claim these figures are just a blip, but
with Network Rail spending out of
control, full scale HS2 just getting
started and then HS3 and Crossrail 2 on the horizon and they have
already committed to spending another £48bn
on from 2019-24, the current rail spend of 36p / mile, cannot help but to stay well above road spending for the next
20 - 30 years.
the £14.8bn spend is totally undemocratic, rail travel is used by only
3% of the population (10% of the working population), making just
all journeys. The £10bn road budget has to serve 100% of the population
that make up 90% of all journeys. The road budget has to maintain
of road, whereas the rail budget has to maintain just 10,000 miles of
track, which goes to show that rail is a VERY expensive way of
moving relatively few people about. Rail is borrowing £6 - £8bn a
year, which it has no plans to pay back, so effectively the government
is subsidising the rail industry £12bn a year.
And for road users it gets worse, the government is clamping down hard on road spending and local councils
are saying that due to budget cuts clogged / unsafe roads and junctions, might have to wait 10 years or more before
they are dealt with.
The Department for Transport will respond by saying 'we do not recognise this figure', but
that will not get them far, because we used their figures, then the
Government and the rail lobby (big business and the unions)
will go into full denial / 'won't somebody think of the children' mode and we as the Tax
Payers have to be ready with answers :-
G - The rail industry has
been historically under funded.
TP- Annually in proportion to 3% rail usage,
has been funded more than road for 20 years.
The government has been 'anti road' since the 90's and no extra road
investment has been sanctioned and as such road spending has hardly
risen from it's present figure of £8-10bn since the mid 90's
(road taxes have nearly doubled). The rail subsidy has risen on average
and is currently 600% higher than in the mid 90's (£0.7bn
to £4.2bn) and loans (hidden subsidy) will stay at £8bn or more
for at least a generation.
G- £7.5bn of the £14.8bn is loan
and cannot be taken as 'spend'
The rail industry has not made a profit since the mid 50's, so unless it
wins about 70 lotteries a year ...
G- We have cancelled / postponed several
rail projects and so the loan will be lower next year
The DfT may have cancelled several projects as they were out of control,
but it then announces
£48bn of spending between 2019-24, which is £9.6bn / year and so the
rail spend will continue to up to around 50p / passenger mile.
£1.9bn of the £14.8bn is VAT relief and all public transport gets VAT relief'
This is just a comparison between road & rail, road gets no relief
and road users even have to pay VAT on top of fuel duty ...
G- The rail industry will
start paying off it's loan
TP- How? It's main income is passenger fares and it would not dare put
them up as even with a £4bn annual subsidy, the UK has fares are 30% higher than comparable European countries.
G- The railways are public
infrastructure and provide a valuable service
The roads are public infrastructure and provide an EVEN more valuable service to
the WHOLE country, not just 3%, roads move people and freight at a
fraction of the cost of rail, even when taxed at £13p / mile
We have to subsidise rail so that people can afford to get to work
Except that nearly 60% of rail fares spending is by the richest
20 per cent of households
We have to subsidise rail, it is the only way people can get to work in the
centre of cities
Replace railways with busways, reports have shown that they would carry
more people with at least 40% lower fares and the bus drivers will even
close the doors, help with heavy luggage, steer the bus and all for a
lot less that £90,000 a year
But rail is green and cars / vans / buses / lorries are 'dirty'
Only less than 50% of the rail system is electric and the other half is
diesel, some of which are 50 years old
But when rail is all electric it will actually be green
With a £1.9bn overspend on electrifying the Great Western, the
government has cancelled all electrification projects and then
bought diesel / electric hybrids
But eventually, when rail is all electric it will be green, buses run on
Most buses currently run on diesel, but they could easily change to
hydrogen or hydrogen fuel cell = zero pollution
But the roads are full, we need to get more people off the roads
The roads are congested, but they are badly managed and traffic
jams are costing the country £9bn a year
making out that drivers to the 'bad guys' and using that as an
excuse to milk us for £34bn every year and saying that higher road
usage taxing will reduce congestion, get it in to your thick heads
that nobody with a choice drives in rush hour, people with a choice
have another coffee and wait till the traffic dies down.
making such as fuss about breakdowns and minor repairs with miles of
cones and closing multiple lanes, countries like Japan and Germany
close one lane, place a vehicle 100m back with lots of flashing
lights and get on with it.
free parking places at all motorway junctions (as in Germany) so
people can meet up and carry on in one car
free parking places at key junctions in cities, so that car sharing
is made easier
more money into road works to provide 24 hour and weekend working.
recording camera's on all main motorways, so that serious / fatal
crashes can be cleared quicker and not turned into 2 day crime
scenes, use intelligent camera software to spot non movement of cars
and signal operator
congested motorways have dedicated light / heavy breakdown trucks,
waiting on all junctions, with the same crash protection system as maintenance
trucks, so that they can drive down motorways the wrong way on hard
the four lane continuous upgrade approach to 1 mile before / after
junctions as that is where the congestion occurs
4 lanes at at junctions, signal non exiting lorries / slow moving
traffic into lane 2 and allow undertaking at speed in lane 1
for exiting traffic
lorries a graduated speed difference based on load weight, at
present anything over 7.5tonnes is stuck at 56mph and the roads are
blocked with lorries passing with only 0.5mph speed difference and
taking a mile to manage it.
transport is useful, but it no good for tradesmen, van drivers,
service engineers in fact any body with kit heavier than a laptop.
It also tends to be radial from the town centres, but most factories
and some offices have moved out from the town centres to edge of /
out of town distributed industrial estates to expand and / or save
money, so public transport is no solution.
only major new motorway built in the past 20 years is M6 toll road,
which at £6 a go hardly anybody uses it, wonder why?
We need tax payers to outguess the government response ???
So if you have an response (excuse) that the government will come up or
an answer then please get in touch
(Period 2016 - 17)
The data below is from government
sources, but we had to do a bit of ferreting to get it all
together, wonder why that was?.
Rail spending is pretty complicated
to tie down, as it is made up of subsidies, loans and tax relief
(all paid for by the tax payer), but can be broken down for 2017 as:-
Interest - on £18.7bn
@ 20% on £9.5bn
||14.8 / 41
spending has been about constant for the last 10 years, but as usual
the tax has gone up year by year
- Fuel Duty & VED
Taxes - Insurance tax & VAT
|Road tax /
||40 / 311 =
311 = 3p
to your MP
OK asking your MP 'what the f*** do you think you are doing with respect
to rail spending' might be considered a little over the top. So just
copy the text below and go to Write
to Them, enter your postcode, select your MP, paste in the text,
enter your details and job done, 2 minutes max.
As a road user and a tax payer, I feel
strongly that the rail to road spending disparity is out of control and undemocratic in that we
are paying through the nose to drive OUR cars / vans lorries on OUR
poorly maintained roads with little investment, whilst the massively
over subsidising an inefficient & costly rail system.
The ratio of rail to road spend is now
totally out of proportion to usage, with rail spend at 150% of road
spend with only 3% of the population using rail, I would ask that this ratio is
corrected immediately and that rail spending is reduced in line with the
ratio of rail to road users.